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America at Stake

Episode #11  |  November 25th, 2020
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In This Episode:

China is proposing a global travel program for who has and has not been tested for the Coronavirus. Gordon G. Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China and Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes On the World joins Trish to discuss the outlandish plans and what it means for the U.S. under Biden. Then, Kristin B. Tate, Novak Fellow at The Fund for American Studies & analyst for Young Americans for Liberty, discusses the potential effects of a Democratic Georgia. And finally, Congressman Ralph Norman representing South Carolina’s 5th District in the US House of Representatives breaks down the loss of freedom that’s coming for all U.S. citizens. 


Gordon G. Chang

Professor and author
Gordon G. Change is a professor and author of The Coming Collapse of China and Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes On the World. He has spoken at the Council on Foreign Relations, The Heritage Foundation, The Brookings Institution, the Cato Institute, RAND, the American Enterprise Institute, and other institutions around the world. He has given briefings at the National Intelligence Council, the CIA, the State Department, and the Pentagon. He has appeared before the House Committee on Foreign Affairs and the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission.

Ralph Norman

Congressman representing South Carolina's 5th District in the US House of Representatives

Kristin B. Tate

Novak Fellow at The Fund for American Studies & analyst for Young Americans for Liberty


Trish Regan:               There’s a lot at stake right now in America. Georgia. Georgia is so critical. I can’t even begin to emphasize how critical Georgia is, because the future of our nation is really dependent upon it. We’re going to talk about that with Kristin Tate. Also, with Congressman Ralph Norman, but before we get to that, there’s been a lot of accusations about China. A lot of accusations about potential problems with voting machines. Whether or not that there could have been any tieback to China. My next guest has spent his career studying China and the challenges the CCP presents.


                                    When you think about what’s happened with the coronavirus. When you think about the enormous complexity of our future relations with China, especially with the Joe Biden, Kamala Harris White House, Gordon Chang starts to get very, very nervous. I’m so happy to have here with me right now, the author of The Coming Collapse of China, Gordon Chang. @GordonGChang is his Twitter handle. Welcome, sir.


Gordon G. Chang:      Well, thank you so much, Trish, and happy Thanksgiving.


Trish Regan:               Happy Thanksgiving. So I’m looking at the headlines now coming out of China. They have this grand idea that we should somehow have a global travel program where they can figure out who should be here I guess, and who shouldn’t, based on whether or not they’ve been properly tested for coronavirus. What’s your thought on that?


Gordon G. Chang:      This is horrific. What China is proposing is a global QR code so that whoever travels would have to show that to the receiving country. Now this would allow China, I think, to sort of hack the system and get health data on everybody who is traveling. And we know that China in the past has gone after health data aggressively. For instance, hacking American insurance companies. Also, it has been trying to get DNA information about individuals. So really what they’re trying to do is to get the information, and which I think first of all to develop the biggest database. Perhaps use artificial intelligence. Perhaps even develop biological weapons based on this. So the last thing we should be doing is giving China more access to health data of people around the world.


Trish Regan:               I agree with you. I mean, I just have a lot of concerns, and this is sort of the libertarian side of my personality. I mean, I just – I feel like this particular instance in this pandemic could be used quite aggressively by some bad actors, and of course, I have a lot of suspicions about China. I know you have a lot of concerns. You’ve devoted your life to these concerns about China and the CCP.


                                    So where do you think this goes? I mean, if Biden is president of the United States, how does that affect our relationship with China? How does it affect even things like this QR code?


Gordon G. Chang:      Well, Joe Biden has said that on day one of his presidency he will rejoin the World Health Organization, and that is dominated by China. And we know that the WHO helped China in its attempts to deliberately spread the coronavirus beyond its borders.


Trish Regan:               Slow down. I want to stop you there. In fact, I was telling someone about this the other day. About your theory on this. But for those who are not familiar with it, you just said a deliberate spread of the virus beyond its borders. Explain what you mean, Gordon.


Gordon G. Chang:      Well, China publicly talked about COVID-19 being contagious only on January 20, but doctors in Wuhan knew no later than the second week of December that this disease was highly contagious. And according to a Harvard Medical School study, it suggests that they knew actually in August.


                                    Now if Chinese leaders had said nothing for those five weeks, or five months, about the transmissibility of this disease, that would have been grossly irresponsible, but they actually tried to tell the world it was not readily transmissible. And they did this through the WHO, which on January 9 and January 14 told the world in a statement and in a tweet that this disease was not readily transmissible based upon evidence from China.


                                    Now doctors at the WHO, senior doctors, knew from the get-go that this was highly contagious because this was a coronavirus, but their voices were shut out because the senior political leadership of the WHO wanted to help China.


                                    Also, Xi Jinping, the Chinese ruler, pressured countries not to impose travel restrictions or quarantines on arrivals from China, and WHO helped them do that by backing up the Chinese position. Now Xi Jinping at the same time was imposing these travel restrictions and quarantines internally in China, so that means that Xi Jinping thought that these measures were effective, and that means Xi Jinping, by leaning on other countries, knew that he was spreading the disease. So this was a deliberate spread of the coronavirus beyond China’s borders.


Trish Regan:               You say it was deliberate. It wasn’t negligence because they knew about it and they took steps internally, right? To make sure that it didn’t internally spread. But they still allowed people to travel internationally?


Gordon G. Chang:      Well, not only did they allow people to travel internationally. They pressured countries not to impose travel restrictions and quarantines on arrivals from China. So they knew that they were spreading the disease by leaning on those other countries.


Trish Regan:               Gosh, Gordon. I mean, do you think – I think I know what the answer is. I mean, you already said that this is deliberate. But why would they do that?


Gordon G. Chang:      Well, and by the way, Trish, there’s more evidence to suggest this, but you know, to answer your question, we don’t know what was in Xi Jinping’s mind, but we do know one thing. That if after having seen how the coronavirus crippled his own country, if he wanted to level the playing field by spreading the disease elsewhere, he would have done exactly what he, in fact, did do. Which means that – you know, there’s just no other explanation that fits the facts. This was a malicious spread of the disease because there are no benign explanations for what Xi Jinping did.


Trish Regan:               Familiarize me again with the timing. So in Wuhan they had already locked everything down, but yet we’re still allowing people to travel internationally?


Gordon G. Chang:      China locked down Wuhan on January 26, but they knew well before that this was contagious. And as I mentioned, there was at least five weeks when Chinese leaders knew that this disease was readily transmissible, highly contagious, and actually tried to convince the world that it was not. And that is – there’s just no other explanation for what they did. This was not just negligence. This was a deliberate act on the part of Xi Jinping. And the World Health Organization helped him in that regard. Even when the WHO knew that China’s narrative was false, the WHO propagated it. It was a January 9 statement and a January 14 tweet that told the world “don’t worry about this.”


Trish Regan:               So your advice, if you were advising Joe Biden on China right now, what would you say? Don’t rejoin the WHO until they kick out China? There are those that say OK, well we need to have some discussions with China because if they’ve got some other deadly virus coming down the pike, then maybe you want to at least know about that, and so it’s better to be in the club than out of the club. What’s your response to that? And again, what do we do?


Gordon G. Chang:      Well, my response would be first of all, we know that China’s malicious, so we’re not going to get help by trying to talk to China. And what we have to do, Trish, is to establish deterrence. We need to impose costs on China for infecting the world. And I know that people don’t want to do this, but think about the alternative, because the coronavirus, COVID-19 is not the last pathogen that will be generated from Chinese soil. These come regularly from Chinese soil. And that means if Chinese leaders think that they can spread this disease without consequence, then they’ll do it again. So we need to establish that deterrence, and that’s to protect us. And the WHO is not protecting us.


                                    You know, the world needs a health architecture, but unfortunately, the WHO is – you know, there’s a lot of fine doctors and specialists in the WHO, but unfortunately, their work is negated by the political leadership of the organization. And I believe that organization is unreformable. But even if one were to believe that we should join the WHO, we shouldn’t be joining on day one. We should be bargaining in order to get ourselves in, and bargaining to make necessary and critical changes. And Biden has indicated he’s not going to do that. He’s just going to sign up on January 20, 2021.


Trish Regan:               That’s a really good point. I mean, use the leverage you have, right? You know, he’s a politician. For goodness sake, he’s been in politics 47 years. He ought to know that. But there’s such a desire it seems like to get back in the good graces of China. What happens to all these trade deals? Do you think that – you know, that the restrictions are going to be eased? And let’s not forget. I want to point this out to the listeners. We have recovered a lot of jobs from China. And American companies have really had to sit up and say OK, wait. Do I really want to be sending all these jobs overseas to a country that clearly is not our friend?


                                    This administration has made them realize that and think about this, and understand that there are consequences associated with it. But you know, if we’re suddenly going to be super good friends with China, how does that change? Are we able to really still influence this in a way so that we can get some of these important jobs back in the U.S.?


Gordon G. Chang:      No, no. We can’t. And the point here is that we don’t know what the Biden administration will do, but there’s a couple of things that we can say. We know that before the campaign, Joe Biden has been talking about China in terms that were quelling. Saying that China is not competition for the United States. That China’s leaders are not bad folks. He said that on May 1, 2019, by the way.


                                    Also, we know that every incoming administration gives China a grace period. The Trump administration did it, and Biden will probably as well. But we’re now at a point, Trish, where we have no moments to lose, and so there should be no grace period. Because the China that is confronting Joe Biden is so much more malevolent than the one that confronted President Trump on the first day in his office in 2017. So clearly things have changed.


                                    You know, we don’t know what the Biden team will do on any of these. I’ve seen a lot of speculation, but we’ve got to keep the pressure on because at this point there is great concern of the points that you just mentioned.


Trish Regan:               So here’s another question for you, and I want to get your honest take on it. You know, there’s been a lot of allegations raised, like really serious allegations, against this Dominion Voting company and one of the allegations that’s come up is that somehow there’s ties to China. I haven’t seen any evidence or support of that, but you’re the China guy, so I want to get your take on that.


Gordon G. Chang:      Yeah. I don’t know about Dominion but I can talk to you about the April 15 election in South Korea for the National Assembly, because there are credible allegations that the party of Moon Jae-In, the President of the country, colluded with the communist party of China to develop an algorithm to switch votes in that April 15  election. And there have been anomalies which are very difficult to explain.


                                    So for instance, Walter Mebane, who is a political scientist at the University of Michigan, has come to the conclusion that about 15% of the votes in that election, 3 million out of 20 million, were actually fraudulent. And indeed, there were some districts in South Korea that reported more than 100% turnout. So there is concern that China did help the ruling party in South Korea, which by the way, is very Left-leaning, to steal the April 15 national elections.


Trish Regan:               Wow. Well, is anybody going to get to the bottom of that one? I mean, are they close to figuring that out for sure?


Gordon G. Chang:      Well, there have been these allegations as I mentioned, and they do appear credible. Obviously in some cases there was fraud beyond doubt because I mentioned turnout of over 100% in some districts. There has been a lot of controversy in South Korea, but Moon, as you can imagine has been determined not to address these issues. So you know, right now it’s very much a standoff, but you know, there is a lot of evidence suggesting that China did develop an algorithm that could switch votes.


                                    South Korea had a two-stage election, so what they developed was a sophisticated way of figuring out how many votes they had to change in order to change outcomes. So right now, you know, these allegations are not going away because they do appear to be correct.


Trish Regan:               Wow. All right. Well, this is all very scary stuff. Gordon, I don’t sleep well at night after talking to you, but that’s OK because the reality is I think we all have to – you can’t bury your head in the sand. You’ve got to really understand and think through the implications of all of this. I want to thank you for joining me today, and happy Thanksgiving.


Gordon G. Chang:      Well, thank you so much, Trish.


Trish Regan:               All eyes on Georgia right now. The runoff election happening in January, and I tell you, it’s really, really important, because this is really going to be what dictates the future of our economy, and whether we follow this path towards socialism or we stay true to our capitalist roots. Someone who believes wholeheartedly in freedom, in free market capitalism is none other than Kristin Tate, also from the great state of New Hampshire. Root for your guy.


                                    She is the Novak Fellow at the Fund for American Studies and analyst for Young Americans for Liberty. It is so good to have you here. Kristin, welcome to the program.


Kristin B. Tate:           Thank you so much for having me, Trish. It’s an honor to be with you.


Trish Regan:               I want to point out, by the way, everybody can follow you @KristinBTate on Twitter. So Kristin, you know, I don’t even want to think about it, because I know that people are really down right now and they’re really concerned about the vulnerability of our voting system, etc., and you know, I’m talking and I feel like this total frustration, but I’m like no, no, don’t get frustrated guys, because you know what? Like it’s got to be all hands on deck. Right now Georgia’s coming up and Kristin, what’s at stake? Outline for me if Georgia goes blue and you wind up with Joe Biden, Kamala Harris there in the White House and you’ve got a blue House of Representatives. What happens?


Kristin B. Tate:           Oh, I mean unified rule for the Democrats, Trish, would end America as we know it. They could reshape this nation in ways that I think people can’t even fathom yet. I mean, packing the Supreme Court is just one thing they could do if they end this filibuster, but I think that they would give statehood to D.C. and Puerto Rico, which would of course, pack the Senate. They could do massive blue-state bailouts, which would force taxpayers around the country to subsidize years, sometimes decades, of poor fiscal responsibility from these blue states. You would see tax hikes. They would probably put in place mass amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants in order to create a permanent voting base for themselves. And of course, once these people get amnesty, they would be eligible for all sorts of welfare.


                                    So these are just a few things they could do. I mean, this is just the beginning, but the big point is America as we know it could radically change if they have unified control. And by the way, it’s not just, you know, policies that they could change. It’s also the fabric of the nation.


                                    I think you know, this election was so important and the coming elections in Georgia are important because it’s not just about policies. It’s about the question of who are we? Who are we as a nation? You know, are we going to be a nation that’s proud of our history – warts and all – and tries to live up to those ideals that we were founded on, or are we going to be a nation that pumps out generations of kids that hate our own nation and you know, brainwashed kids into this Left-wing ideology and rejects everything that this country was founded on.


                                    So it’s kind of a two-part change that we could see if they get control. Both a policy change, but also you know, a change that really speaks to the fabric of the country.


Trish Regan:               It’s really alarming, and I know that you’ve done a lot of reporting on this. I should point out you have a new book that came out within the last year, The Liberal Invasion of Red State America. You can follow her on Twitter @KristinBTate. And Kristin, you found – I mean there’s really been almost a corruption, right? If you would, of how young people are being taught. And I find it incredibly like psychologically damaging, because I just know that like you kind of like to look back at your past, whether it’s your family or your nation, and think hey, you know, we’ve really done something, right? We’ve really come from somewhere and accomplished something rather than be ashamed of your past. And it’s like they’re teaching you right now – I mean, Columbus Day is a great example, right? What do they call it? Indigenous People’s Day?


                                    I mean, you’ve got to be ashamed of your past and all these heroes that really were – we wouldn’t even have the luxury, right? Of being ashamed of our past if it weren’t for Christopher Columbus. But there’s a brainwashing it seems to me that’s going on in society right now.


Kristin B. Tate:           Right. So I can’t think of one nation in the history of the world that has thrived by teaching generations of its own citizens to hate their own country. But you know, I always say well, Republicans for the last decade or two have been you know, kind of in a corner bickering about marginal tax rates. We let the Left remake the society, and we let them remake American education, and our culture. And you know, people – young people from very young ages now in these public schools are being taught about antiracism, which is of course, a radical Left-wing ideology that tells all white kids that they’re basically born racist.


Trish Regan:               Kids are kids, and this is – I mean it’s just – it’s a bunch of baloney, but it’s a dangerous – a dangerous, dangerous path. I mean, Kristin, like I ––


Kristin B. Tate:           _____.


Trish Regan:               Yeah. I mean, I look at it and I just say you know what? I believe in a meritocracy, right? And to me to get the real meritocracy I don’t dispute that you know, if you grow up in a poor neighborhood – and by the way, there’s plenty of poor places in West Virginia, too, right? That you know, kids are just as disenfranchised as they might be in the inner city of Baltimore. But my point is, is that in an ideal place you have a meritocracy where people are given the opportunity to succeed, and it’s an equal opportunity to succeed as opposed to trying to guarantee some kind of equal outcome for everyone and therein lies the difference.


                                    I mean, to me it’s socioeconomic, right? I mean, again I don’t think you should see it through the prism of the color of someone’s skin. It’s too narrow.


Kristin B. Tate:           You’re exactly right. I mean, the Democrats in charge, they know exactly what they’re doing, and they should be ashamed. They are ripping this country apart on racial lines. It’s divisive, it’s harmful, and it hurts the people that they claim they’re trying to help. We need to lift up Americans. We need to give all Americans, especially those from more poor backgrounds, pathways to create their own success and live out their American dream.


                                    And you know, an American dream for one person in one part of the country could look very different from the dream of another person on the opposite coast, and that’s OK. That’s what this country is about. It’s about the opportunity. But the Democrats I really believe, Trish, they know what they’re doing. They’re insidious. This is all about growing their voter base by pushing perpetual victimhood, and it’s so harmful to this country.


                                    I mean, for all the labels of Donald Trump being a racist, and you know, all of this. Under his policies, under conservative policies, we saw record low unemployment for so many Americans. For Black Americans, for Hispanic Americans. We saw women in the workplace doing better than they have in decades. And this is the kind of policy that really does lift people up. So I would love to see more of that. And you know, less of this divisive rhetoric that’s so harmful. But this is the path the Left has chosen to go down, and I’m afraid that a lot of you know, people are buying into this.


Trish Regan:               Yeah, and it never plays out well as we’ve most recently seen in the perfect case study that’s going on in real time in Venezuela. Anyway, Kristin Tate, I encourage everyone to follow you on Twitter @KristinBTate. Terrific author, columnist who focuses on freedom and the onerous effects of taxation and crazy federal spending. Kristin, thank you so much. It’s great to have you here.


Kristin B. Tate:           Thank you so much for having me, Trish.


Trish Regan:               I’m so happy to have as my next guest the wonderful congressman from South Carolina representing the 5th district, just reelected again, Congressman Ralph Norman. It’s good to talk to you again.


Ralph Norman:           Well, thanks beyond _____. Really appreciate what you have done and continue to do.


Trish Regan:               Well you know, you’ve been a big part of sort of getting the word out for the importance of freedom, and the importance of every individual. So let me just ask you as we go into Thanksgiving with all that in mind in states all over the country saying you know, you can only have this many people in your house, and we’re shutting down the restaurants at this time or that time, and you’ve got to wear a mask indoors and out. What do you think of that, Congressman? Where are we in terms of the scope of this when you consider the infringement on our civil liberties?


Ralph Norman:           You know, Thomas Jefferson said the people that fear the government is tyranny. The government that fears the people is freedom. And we’re losing our freedom. Who would have ever thought that government could not only shut your business down, but can shut churches down? Can shut you know, every conceivable business that they deem you know, worthy of shutting down. “Essential” I think is the word that I’ve heard. But now we’re losing our freedom, and you know, I think that’s one of the wakeup calls that so many people went to the polls to vote and that’s why no Republican loss, incumbent loss, and we’re going to pick up you know, 12 seats or more and so you know, we lose our freedom.


                                    And you know, the shutting of business down is like oxygen to humans. They’re taking oxygen away from us. And I’m in the private sector and we just shouldn’t stand for it, but the Democrat governors, that’s just what is happening.


Trish Regan:               You know, I’m going to let listeners in on something. I remember back in March, earlier this year as all of this was going down and we were starting to shut down, you know, you said to me, God, I mean this is driving me crazy. They will shut down this country. And you and I both talked about how political it had become, and what a tragedy really that was. And I still believe it’s being politicized. You know, I understand and I respect that we need to be careful, but nonetheless I don’t understand, Congressman, why is it that given all of the tremendous assets we have as a nation, why can we not be more strategic about this? In other words, protect the people that need protection, right? People with preexisting conditions or the elderly. Generally the people in nursing homes. Thank you, Governor Cuomo who sent people with COVID-19 in April into these nursing homes. And why aren’t they taking the proper precautions? Why do you just say OK, that’s it, folks. Shutting everything down.


Ralph Norman:           You know, I think for this to be political is so sad, and it just – I think their intent is to make us more reliable, more dependent on government. I think that when they can even do this as they’ve done in North Carolina and other states run by Democrats, it’s a – the public, just we the people are just going to have to say no. and Cuomo, I think he got an Emmy for his reporting which is a complete travesty.


Trish Regan:               It is a travesty because he was out there, you know, in front of the television cameras when he really should have been back at work saying don’t let anyone with COVID-19 into our nursing homes.


Ralph Norman:           Yeah. And then to say he’s not going to take the vaccine, who is he to say that? Why is he speaking for patients who let him come down with COVID. Let him refuse you know, a treatment. But he just is overstepping his authority, but that’s how they are. It’s all about power, and it’s all about keeping people under their thumbs.


                                    I think that’s what is going to change in – it changed now in this election, and it’s going to change in 2022.


Trish Regan:               We are talking with Representative Ralph Norman of South Carolina. You can follow him on Twitter @RepresentativeRalphNorman. And speaking of Twitter. Oh my goodness. I mean, I think 2020 has really taught everyone just about the dangers if you would, sir, you know, when it comes to Big Tech, and Big Media, big corporate media, and these Big Tech  companies that have their own personal biases, including employees with their own personal biases, and yet now they get to decide what we can read, what we can see, what we can’t see?


Ralph Norman:           It’s ridiculous. I mean, Trish, they’re private companies, billion-dollar companies. They’re exempt from liability by Section 230, which we’re going to do our best to change, because it should not be – what makes them unaccountable? Any private business is accountable to our customers, and they’ve got a monopoly? And it’s time to break them up, and we’re going to really put that out there and we’ll see how the Democrats respond.


                                    But you know, it’s – I’ve been banned. You have. You know, and I had doctors on the steps in front of the Supreme Court just giving their opinion on hydroxychloroquine, and these were MDs. These weren’t just drug in off the street who didn’t have degrees. But they’ve gotten way too big. They’ve got to be broken up, and they’ve got to be – take the immunity shield away from them.


Trish Regan:               They need to understand their place in the world. If they are in fact the town square then they’re just the town square, but right now the way it is, they’re effectively news organizations, right? They’re the ones deciding what America can see or not see. And I agree with you on that monopoly front because they have become so large. When you look at Facebook, more than a billion people are on that platform. And yeah, you can say oh, well you can go to another platform, but it’s not that easy. It’s not that easy when this company has become such a behemoth. So I think it’s important that Section 230, just to familiarize everyone with it, that was put into place back in the beginning of these tech companies’ existences because they said look, you know, we’re just sort of the pathway for this information to get out there. We’re not censoring it. We don’t have any say in it so we really shouldn’t be responsible for it, and people went along with that.


                                    But now it’s like we don’t want to be responsible for it, but simultaneously we will have some say in it. And if we don’t like what Representative Norman is saying or what Trish Regan is saying, or anybody else, then we have the right to shut them down. And that feels kind of messed up.


Ralph Norman:           That’s abuse of power. I mean, it’s a monopoly that is abusing their power. You know, if you and I don’t like a particular grocery store, gas station, or business you can go elsewhere. Where do you go, Trish, that really competes with these giants? You don’t.


                                    Now I think some others will spring up now, but it’s going to take a time of adaptation. But for them to even do this and to be so – you’ve heard them in front of the Senate committee, saying they made a mistake. They’re going to try to correct it. What kind of mistake is it when you deliberately take somebody off, you ban them from the media, and just because they think it’s not deemable to be you know, to be out there, publicized. Yet you can find – look at what you can find on the things they do promote. I mean, look at the pornography that’s on there. They never shut that down.


Trish Regan:               Oh, no. I mean, I think it’s really horrible, and so their standards are in some cases sort of out of whack. Let me turn to Georgia right now because you know, we were just talking earlier with Kristin Tate and she and I were discussing the importance of Georgia really for the overall country right now. It’s sort of like it’s really hanging in the balance because, my gosh, I’d hate to think if those seats were to flip and go red, you’re then looking at not having any, frankly, adults in the room and there’s lots I think consequences associated with that.


                                    What is it that you can tell us about sort of how the Republican party is galvanizing around Georgia, and what the intention is to really drum up support? Because I can tell you, I mean, Stacey Abrams is already down there, you know, working on getting absentee votes and you know, the whole shebang. She’s got all the infrastructure really that she’s trying to put into place and they’re pouring a ton of money in. What are the Republicans doing?


Ralph Norman:           Well, a couple of things. One, we realize the fraud that took place with mail-in ballots where you can’t verify signatures, where you can’t – the postmarks, they didn’t verify to make sure it was mailed you know, by the owner before the third. We know what we’re up against so we’re taking precautions there and putting people on the ground before the vote happens in January.


                                    Secondly, we’re just – as I mentioned, we’ve had a cause where we’re raising money. Stacey Abrams has been working I guess since she lost along with Obama and Eric Holder to change laws in the state. They blame it on COVID, but that’s just a ruse in my opinion. But you know, we spread the word. This is do or die. If they keep the House – and it’s going to be by a narrow margin – if they get the Senate and executive branch, then there’s no stopping. They’re going to make states of Puerto Rico and D.C. They’re going to – I mean no telling on the Green New Deal. I mean, spending spree… we’ve got to have a backstop. This is our last hope to have it.


Trish Regan:               Yeah. That’s well put, and I think people really do need to focus. In terms of mail-in ballots, are they going to still you think allow that? I know a lot of Republicans would not like to see that because it feels like you know, it feels like it’s too easy, too ripe for manipulation. But mail-in ballots, are those still going to be a thing? Probably, right? I mean, if you’re still in the throes of COVID.


Ralph Norman:           It is, but I think that the difference now that you’ll see is they’re going to have boots on the ground that’s going to raise – they’re not going to be shy. They’re going to raise issues if they get blocked out from actually viewing the ballots. We’re going to have people in place that are going to fight, and that are really going to raise objections. And that’s what is different now about this race because we have time to prepare for it. And January 3, I think is when they vote, or the first part of January. But they’re going to be ready for it. They’re going to be ready for fraud, but it’s not going to be after the fact. It’s going to be while it’s going on. And I think you know, we’ve got a good shot at getting both of them, And that’s still a slim majority, Trish. That’s way too close-call to have, but it is what it is.


Trish Regan:               Well you know, good luck to you, and the country is hoping that Georgia comes through. I know your district did there for you again in South Carolina, so my congrats to Representative Ralph Norman. You can follow him on Twitter @RepRalphNorman. Always working hard to preserve our freedom. Thank you, sir. So good to talk to you today.


Ralph Norman:           Have a great Thanksgiving, Trish.


Trish Regan:               I just want to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving. I hope you have a wonderful holiday. I’m actually going to break the rules and have a few people over. Don’t tell anyone. I guess it’s just in my live-free-or-die kind of nature, but you know, hopefully everybody is very healthy and takes whatever necessary precautions you think is important for your family, but let’s all be thankful to be here.


                                    And I know what I’m most thankful for, and that is my family, and my health, and my freedom. My freedom really matters, and so when we talk about it being on the line, we’re not kidding. I mean, this is a very critical time, so I encourage you to keep listening to this show. To listen to me every day on Trish Intel, my daily podcast. To go to and read our writings there, and on where we have a constant update of the news.


                                    This is a critical time. Happy Thanksgiving everyone, and I’ll talk to you next week.


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